Episode Transcript
[00:00:01] Speaker A: Hey, y'all. My name is Brandon Bush.
[00:00:03] Speaker B: I'm Kayden Petrus.
[00:00:04] Speaker C: And I'm Karlie Faulkner. And we are the host of Spark.
[00:00:07] Speaker B: By revolutionaire, where we pass the mic to people whose voices are not always.
[00:00:10] Speaker A: Heard and have candid and informative conversations. And today's episode is about cis heteronormativity and violence. Welcome back to another episode of Spark by Revolutionaire. Today we have the amazing Ali Smith to talk to us about versus heteronormativity and violence within american society. And so I'll start off by reading off your bio. So, Allison Smith is an activist, poet and all around creative. She is heavily involved with politics and is a firm believer in youth political participation. She is making her mission to provide a sense of representation to her younger peers through service with local and national organizations and publications such as the Commercial Appeal, Teen Vogue, amazing, the Guardian, also amazing Buzzfeed News, and etcetera. Through her work, she has broken down existing boundaries in her community by talking to local politicians and educators. Her future is one that is free of limitations and societal normativities, which is very topical. Since we're talking about cis heteronormativity, how are you doing today?
[00:01:18] Speaker D: I am doing good. I am excited to be here and talk about this issue because this is something that we all need to be cognizant of. So thank you all for having me here.
[00:01:29] Speaker A: Of course, let's go ahead and hop straight on into it. So, of course, we know that there are a hell of a lot of politicians, celebrities, all kinds of people who are coming out and saying very transphobic, homophobic things that are happening within society. And so let's talk a little bit about that. How do you feel about that in regards to how it enforces cis heteronormativity?
[00:01:54] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:01:54] Speaker D: So I think first, before we start anything, we need to identify what that means. So cis heteronormativity is the belief or the idea that heteronormativity or being cisgendered is the normal, the default, the standard. So, obviously, I'm upset and I'm infuriated about the things that have been said and that we have seen in the past few years centering around this issue.
For instance, we can talk about Clarence Thomas and all of the negative comments that he's made about the LGBTQ community since Roe v. Wade has been overturned. That was a very intersectional issue in terms of women or cisgender people not being the only ones who need access to abortions. Whoever has a uterus needs access to abortions that they do not want to have that child. So I think one thing that we need to understand is that, you know, they're othering us and they're making us feel like we aren't important in terms or mattering in terms of just living and existing in human life and having things readily available for us, for the well being of our health, of our sanity, and of our well being.
[00:03:07] Speaker B: I think it's also important to say they're not just saying these things, they're putting them into action, and this is affecting policy. It's a scary thing. I mean, just like we talked about Roe v. Wade being overturned, that was a major decision that we thought we were going in the right direction with. We took ten steps back, or, you know, our country took ten steps back. So their thoughts and their opinions aren't just. They're not op ed pieces, they're actually going into policy and they're affecting the lives of the people who need these services. So, I mean, it's just crazy. I think it's insane. Yeah.
[00:03:39] Speaker D: Yeah. And, you know, growing up in the south, like we're oftentimes told, or in the grand scheme of cis heteronormativity, we're told that from a very early age, we need to cater to a man or we need to be caterers or nurturers in turn. That makes us feel as though we can't be anything that we feel on the inside. We're already given a role to play, and I think that's the big provider.
[00:04:06] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:04:06] Speaker D: That's the biggest thing that cisheteronormativity does. It alienates you into becoming a role instead of being the multifaceted, all the things that you are in yourself. So that's one thing that, you know, that is ran rampant in my life, because, you know, we're growing up in the south and we're going to these middle schools and these high schools, and we're seeing the standard of. The standard of relationships or the standard of having a status or power is tied to a man or tied to someone of a mask identifying figure.
[00:04:39] Speaker C: When did you start seeing. Because you said you grew up in the south and you started seeing a lot of it. When did you start feeling, or when you start having a sense that that was not the norm and that this being a default was harmful.
[00:04:51] Speaker D: I think middle school was a very big, pivotal moment for me in terms of figuring out who I am and what my identity looks like and feels like. One thing about being a queer black kid in the south is that we don't really have the representation to articulate who we are.
One thing that we see that I saw in middle school is, you know, I would see, you know, white girls or grunge aesthetically, like, white girls who are tumblr users and stuff like that. Having this identity of being, you know, bisexual or having the access to know who they are. And that's one thing that, you know, as a black. As a southern black woman, I didn't get. So seeing that and also seeing how they are more likely to have their personhood acknowledged is something that really stuck with me, and that's what really see the injustices of how that is. And when I would hear some of my close black girlfriends say, oh, I'm bi, and then people would discredit him and be like, you're not bi. You don't know what you are. You're going through a phase. But I'm like, okay, so we're not accepting or listening to our young black girls when they say, this is who I am, and that is reaffirmed by cis heteronormativity.
[00:06:10] Speaker A: And something that I think that you said when you touched on, having access to understanding the language and the identity of who you are is something that's very, very topical. Of course, we see all of the legislation that is being passed in Florida as well as in Texas with Bill 1601. It's just all of these different things that are literally restricted youth, like LGBTQ youth, specifically trans youth, being able to explore their own identities and also be able to exist within society peacefully and understand and begin to grow within who they are. And I think that that's something that also ends up being incredibly violent because these kids, they literally cannot breathe because they're literally being suffocated by society. And that, in turns, has so much negative like effects very personally. Like, you cannot be able to go out to certain places when there was a bill that was passed that specifically restricted teachers from being able to offer or. Yeah, offer up help to or affirm transgender students within their class, whether it be within their lesson plans or within anything else or any sort of healthcare provider that enacts violence, these sort of things that reinforce violence, that reinforce erasure and invisibility around trans youth and LGBTQ youth at large, is something that is just. It's so incredibly negative, and it's so incredibly impactful, and I don't think that people truly understand that.
[00:07:55] Speaker C: Right.
[00:07:56] Speaker B: And these legislators are starting at the root. Something that we learn in medicine is primary prevention, and that's strictly education. And when you're taking away that education, that necessary information to give people a chance to discover themselves and to open up a world of new possibilities. That's very, very harmful. Primary prevention affects a lot.
You teaching people about different types of places in the world or different types of identities, and you taking that away. Ron DeSantis, you mentioned the bill.
He's passing legislation that takes away even talking about sexual orientation. So, I mean, where do you go from there? I mean, was that your experience going to school in the south? I mean, even though they didn't have that bill back then, what was it like talking about having stigma? Yeah, what was the stigma around that, especially with teachers, with peers? What was that like?
[00:08:52] Speaker D: You really didn't talk about it. Like, the thing is, like, they would. It's always, oh, we know he's sweet, or we know he's funny, or we know she's. She's a dyke, or we know that she's this or this. You know, it was always a negative, connotated way of saying something to someone. So there wasn't really any talking. It was just basic insults. And, like, we're moving on with our day, and there wasn't any intervention. There wasn't any less, learned less. Let's figure out circumstances or see why this is happening or see why having a young gay student in ISS. But we're not figuring out the reasons of why they are here. What is the home life like? They say that the percentage of LGBTQ youth in homelessness is growing by the years, so we don't really see or focus on the circumstances of why something is happening. We're so quick to antagonize. And I think that's been the experience of being queer my entire life of growing up in the south and also being a young, queer black woman who's not afraid to stand up to the status quo. I think that's one thing that has really been eye opening. Either they're trying to tokenize me or they're trying to tell me that I don't know what I'm talking about. And that's been, you know, a huge. A huge reason of why I keep talking, keep doing the things that I do.
Yeah.
[00:10:20] Speaker A: So let's go back to Roe v. Wade now. How do you see it affecting LGBTQ youth at large or LGBTQ people at large?
[00:10:30] Speaker D: I really think it's the beginning. It's the beginning of creating this uniform based society, and it's starting with attacking the rights of our bodies. And then once we do that, we can attack the mind or we can attack you know, the different aspects of being a human in America now.
[00:10:50] Speaker C: It seems like it's a little bit of an intro to this reversion or this, like, reverting back to. And I think that we've always been it, but this heteronormative patriarchal society, and it very much is like the beginnings of the stronger reinforcement being used in politics to do that. And we can definitely use Florida as an example. I feel like they are kind of laying the groundwork for extreme homophobic, transphobic agendas being used, and they're showing what's going to happen to the rest of the nation down the long road. So that's very worrying, I think.
[00:11:35] Speaker B: I don't know if we mentioned this before or not to take it to the extreme, but has anybody ever watched the handmaid tale?
[00:11:41] Speaker D: Yes.
[00:11:42] Speaker B: So it all started with stuff like this, with bills, little bills being changed and being amended and us not realizing it or maybe not even just realizing it. We had another episode where we talked about media clouding the real stuff that's going on in the world, and these are the things that are happening. There are actual amendments that are being changed, and the verbiage of what's being said in these amendments is directly harmful to women, to LGBTQ, to all of these vulnerable populations that are affected by the decisions of men, you know, in power. So it's very harmful. Like, in Handmaid's tale. This is. This is. I feel like Florida is just ominous. It's.
[00:12:25] Speaker D: Yeah, it's dystopian.
[00:12:26] Speaker B: It's dystopian.
[00:12:27] Speaker D: Yes.
[00:12:27] Speaker B: Yes. And it's terrifying. It's terrifying.
[00:12:29] Speaker A: Just a lot. And so it's a lot. But we want to end this off on a really good note.
So I wanted to ask y'all, like, what are LGBTQ figures that y'all see that are championing, you know, the movement in regards to resisting all of these things that are happening within legislation in society?
[00:12:53] Speaker D: I think the first person who comes to mind historically, for me is Audre Lorde. Audre Lorde has always been someone that I've seen myself in and who has articulated the things that I have always dreamed of in the most eloquent, but also in the most dense, in very practical ways.
Someone who is now in legislature in Minneapolis, Andrea Jenkins, who is the first black transgender woman to be in the House of Representatives. I think she stands out to me because I had the opportunity to see. To meet her at a conference hosted by LGBTQ victory, which is an organization here in DC that specializes in allowing young people to know, the shoulders that they stand on. And meeting her really just showed me that, you know, things. Things are going in a progressive light in some ways. There are always some heavy hitters, some fighters who are always gonna fight for the things that we wanna see. And that, you know, is close to our heart. But one thing that has inspired me lately is just seeing Gen Z stand up, is seeing them walk into these spaces and say, no, we're not gonna take this. This is like our nation. This is us. We're building it as we're gonna be the future leaders of tomorrow. So it's always good to see that there is such a strong camaraderie in force with Gen Z.
[00:14:28] Speaker B: Most definitely, most definitely. The youth. We are the future. We're living the future. You know, I think they try to. They try to tell us, you know, you know, dress a certain way, do this because these are the people that are hiring you. We're the people that are doing the hiring now. You know, we're the people who are in office making the decision. So I think there's a change, and we're a part of it, and we just need to stick strong because we're it. We're it.
[00:14:51] Speaker A: You know, I think some figures who are standing out to me right now is Richie Torres, who was a representative for New York City. And I've seen, like, I was tasked with before I graduated, tasked with doing an essay on him and just kind of studying some of the work that he's done. And I really admire how he's taken his identity and used that for him to be able to represent his own community and the people who are least represented within society because he's Afro Latino, he's also gay. And so, like I said, just using his power, using his identity, using all of the tools and resources at his availability to be able to speak the truth and also be able to highlight things and fight for things that people need every day. I think one of the things that people really forget when we talk about politics, you know, everybody gets caught up in the fact that, oh, you know, it's the, you know, it's the politicians going back and forth and being on the floor and being performative. And to some degree, I can agree with that. However, we very much so forget that the political is personal. And so no matter what is happening on the floor of any, you know, Senate, you know, sort of convening or house of representatives or whatever the case may be, that directly affects our everyday.
[00:16:14] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:16:14] Speaker A: And I think that that needs to continue to be pushed and so when we have people like Richie Torres who are there pushing those sorts of things and pushing those agendas, pushing those problems so that way we can overcome them, that's something that's incredibly important no matter what way you spin it.
Also, Lil Nas X, I. Let me see.
I am not gonna hold y'all. Lil Nas X is doing it for me in regards to just being very much so unapologetic when this being very out there and being funny. Like, I see a lot of myself out within Lil Nas X.
[00:16:48] Speaker C: So we talked a lot about how Gen Z is sort of a beacon of hope in the face of what's going on, especially in Florida, with the transphobic, homophobic laws and bills being passed. And so I just wanted to ask you, before we head out, what is your ideal sort of vision for what you want to see in the upcoming years or decades when Gen Z has more of a political hold on the decisions that we make here in the nation?
[00:17:16] Speaker D: So to answer that question, and I've thought about this so much, but one thing that gives me hope in terms of that question is allowing our youth to have the spaces to build their own tables, to have community building exercises and things of that nature for themselves. But also invite have, like this multi generational space where everyone could have their ideas, but also that everyone is seen as who they want to be and as who they are. And that's really the main thing.
It's so easy to have this elaborate, thought out, eloquent answer, but really, I just want to be seen as who I am and I want other people to be seen as who they are so that we can move forward and have this new age of progressive politics and have emphasize that we are not. It is not politics over people. It's people over politics always. So that's how my world looks and that's what I'm going to try to fight to get. And you guys are already doing the work to get there. And I'm just glad that y'all invited me on this space. It has been amazing. This conversation has been extremely eye opening. And I have learned so many gems and nuggets from y'all. We have from you.
[00:18:34] Speaker B: Yes, yes. Absolutely.
[00:18:35] Speaker D: But also, y'all have given me the space to do that. So thank y'all. You're so welcome.
[00:18:40] Speaker A: Alrighty. Well, thank y'all for tuning in and we are going to see y'all next time. This was sparked by revolutionaire.
[00:18:47] Speaker B: Tune in for our next episode.
[00:18:48] Speaker D: Bye.
[00:18:52] Speaker A: Hey, y'all, make sure that y'all stay tuned for more episodes for sparked by.
[00:18:56] Speaker C: Revolutionaire and follow us on TikTok and Instagram at Revolutionnaire Co. See you later.
